Well that's sad, I bet it was some of the people commenting the other day that brought it to their attention. :(

Well it can still happen for the dog owners. Just find a friend with a pool at there home go swim with your dog and let the pool man clean up the mess.

This is for the welfare of the public. Everyone knows that dogs without reservation will urinate in the water.

Someone finally keep to their senses. People & dogs in the same water don't mix...only the dumb dog owners think it is correct.

I agree Miabrat...some comments were so ugly...in my long lifetime I have found, beyond a doubt, that people who dislike animals are usually selfish, cold-hearted and even abusive souls.

My greatest joy is seeing my (and other's) dogs romp in glee at Dogbeach, swim their little hearts out...interact in peace with both man & beast....and you'd never meet nicer folks than those found there, people with good hearts - and most always geared with Oops bags.

An occasional "floater" never made any of us sick, but the ugly bloggers are always sick from something...and always complaining & blogging - they obviously have no life outside of their commentaries. THEY make me sick with their daily excrementola, and fighting back and forth as tho this was their personal domain.

Wonder why FM Beach & Sannibel people stay healthy; too bad Collier has not 200' of beach to share with man's best friend.

What a spin! Now the deal is that NO fresh inland water bathing beach (in a lake, pond, or river) open to the public can allow ANY domestic animals on the beach. Nor can bathers have glass containers. It isn't about outflow. Florida Statutes and Administrative Code is very clear on this issue. Apparently the County finally got the message. The only thing too bad is that the notice didn't go out canceling the event when it should have.

Camden Smith should be dizzy from the spinning she does.

Now the county should find a salt water beach for those of us who do have dogs which like the beach. The should have done this in the first place. Salt water isn't regulated by health codes. However, water samples are taken regularly and the beaches are posted if the indicator bacteria count is too high. Then the public can swim at their own risk if they choose to ignore the warnings.

Fresh water is treated like a big community/public pool in that the swimming areas are permitted and cover the body of water.

For the record all of Florida's laws are online and searchable. Most are written in clear terms so that normal people can understand them.

My favorite quote from Ms. Smith is “The health department says state law regulates dogs where people are swimming and we weren’t aware of that.”

Wow, she may need to take a reading class if she looked at the code at all. The state law in this case does not regulate dogs...the law regulates public/community swimming areas to protect the public's health, safety and welfare as per the state legislature. The prohibition is against domestic animals and not just dogs...so sorry no cats can swim either....and leave the horse and other pets home too...

jlnanaples: You wondered about the difference in FM Beach and Sannibel...the difference is SALT water with more than outflow...it has tidal action and wave action. Huge difference biologically and again...salt water beaches are not regulated.

Collier County needs a dog beach on salt water, not just open occasionally, but all the time the beaches are open.

The haters have won. We can all sleep better knowing that there will be no illnesses borne from the six--count them, six--dogs who actually went into the water.

Given that one of the gator's favorite morsels is dog, I can't believe anyone would let their pet swim in that lake. Let alone swim close by where you could be mistaken for a yummy morsel yourself.

naplesdad, it's the same lake where they had water shows and people swim (hence the mighty uproar).

I guess no gators.

I wouldn't swim anywhere there is the slightest chance Mr. Alligator would be (freshwater),.

BTV...I usually agree with you, but to blame Ms. Smith for this, is not right.

Somebody's gotta talk, and she's the one to talk about whatever the County chooses.

So let's talk floaters shall we?

Floaters and this freshwater beach...this swimming lake with gators possibly, and swimmers and water ski fans, does not mix. Law or not, the floaters would fester.

Common sense would dictate this, but someone was thinking about Collier's canines here. Can you blame them?

They're also thinking about failing revenue and how to make more...not a bad idea...

But to charge a taxpayer for a dog to swim in a County Park or fresh or saltwater beach?

Bad idea...legal or not...BAD IDEA.

Maybe a vet could create a canine play area for dogs to swim in and pooh in freely.

The beaches here should remain clear of dog feces....the Dog Beach in Lee County is not to ruff for dogs and owners alike.

And it's FREE of charge.

What about seagulls? I have been to Sugden Park when there was so many seagulls that you wouldn't want to stick a toe in the water! Seagulls are well known to hang out at city dumps - yuk. Also, what did the Collier County Health Department do about that?

Sad.

Are they saying that dogs urinate in a lake (and the gulf) and people don't? That's pretty naive, isn't it? I think people should be banned from swimming in all bodies of water for the same reason!

How pathetic.

BTV and others, I guess you are pleased.

There is now one less place for dog lovers to actually enjoy their companions. This is not a dog friendly city/county, and I guess it's largely due to folks like you.

Thats ok, I dont like my dog swimming where humans are, its just disgusting.

I've had dogs my entire life, and have come to an undersatnding that not everyone likes animals. I was looking forward to the Pooch Plunge, just to see how it went, but I must admit there are some valid points here. A large number of dogs in a concentrated area present certain health issues, not just for you, but your dog. That being said, the true irony of this situation is that in the current state of mass population, your chances of E-coli contamination are far greater buying and ingesting commercially processed beef and vegetables.

What concerns me about area lakes isn't dog urine and feces.

After decades of stuffing the prickly St. Augustine grass and all the golf courses with pesticides, fungicides, herbicides and fertilizers that leach from the soil and runoff downstream into water-retention ponds, ah, I mean "lakes," what's a little more nitrate in the water going to hurt?

I'll take my chances with dog poop over all the chemicals. My body has evolved over millions of years to deal with most microorganisms. But toxic levels of copper, not so much.

I personally love poop. I never, !!ever!! pick up my dog's poop. Sunshine and fresh air is the best disinfectant. Instead of wrapping the poop in plastic and sending it off to contaminate the bowels of a landfill, I let the insects and fungi and sunshine break it down to become part of the soil, like what happens to the poop of all other wild animals who aren't followed around with a plastic bag.

Who picks up the panther poop? Deer? Raccoon? Coyote? Rabbit? Opossum?

To date my dogs have generated an estimated 350 lbs. of poop. Yet, you see no evidence of such in and around my habitation. The grass has never been greener.

Boccie anyone?

I'm going to go outside and poop right now.

Might even drive over to Lake Avalon to pinch one off.

Does this newly-discoverd state law prohibit dogs at or near public bathing areas apply to Dog Beach in Lee County? Why or why not?

Since we are on the topic.........

www.poopreport.com

It was a good idea that just didn't pan out. Nice try anyway. I hope to see the county still try new things.

First, I am not an animal "hater" ColinF. I have a number of pets. My family has two dogs, a cat and several birds right now. We have had other pets during the course of the kids growing up. All but one bird were adopted via a shelter or rescue.

Second, beetlejuice, Smith is blaming the health dept. when all along the permit is clear and Parks just didn't bother to do their homework. They have a fiduciary responsibility to comply to the terms of the permit issued for this public swimming area. But so be it. At least one group is stepping up to comply with the rules/laws with which they MUST comply (not optional...not fuzzy feel good...but MUST).

As I said before the laws governing the state are produced the state legislature and signed by the governor. If you don't like them: contact your state senator and representative and complain. Be aware the laws governing public health, safety and welfare are normally based on sound rational and prudent judgment which includes scientific information. But feel free to put the responsibility for this particular law where it belongs on the people who make the laws.

Ecoterror have fun. Swim in your own pond and swim with pigs, ducks, goats and whatever you want. But we live (like it or not) in a country, state and county bound by the rule of law. Make your argument in a logical science based letter and get in touch with your state legislators. Change the laws.

Easy access to the state law can be found at this link. Using key words you can find rules on just about any law you care to read. That is how I found the specific rule 64E-9.013.3 (3) (i).

https://www.flrules.org/default.asp

I will take the liberty to speculate on how the Health dept. found out about the event which would put the county in violation of the permit...not the posting in the blogs, but the folks there do read the newspaper. They also know their regulations. Once aware they MUST act. It isn't optional. The unfortunate part is that the person who thought up the idea didn't look at the parameters of their permit or think to collaborate with the regulating agency. That is why I am so hard on Smith. If County parks and rec. had done its job properly, they never would have scheduled the first event. I would also bet any publicity for the April event publicity was not seen by the health department folks or they would have acted before.

Nope, I was not the one to send the article to the Health Department. They can and do read the paper all by themselves.

PS, go ahead and vent on me. Why not? After all I did post that it was illegal on the first story about this idea But go back and read my comments carefully. If you do, you will note I am not against swimming with dogs. When I lived in another part of the state where there were dog beaches on salt water, I brought both of our dogs and enjoyed the water with them.

Fresh water is a different entity. Unlike salt water, the public swimming areas do have specific permitting requirements.

Instead of venting against me. Take action to provide for future swimming events!

Two possible solutions exist. Change the laws governing public swimming beaches OR push for a real dog beach on salt water for this county. The best choice would be the last one as the action of the tide and waves make it the safest.

NaplesCracker. Just one question. Do you swim in fresh water in Florida?

As a former professional who chased and researched diseases for the Feds, I will tell you I would NEVER swim in fresh water in Florida. I might have when I was first based here in 1968, but not now.

I would never swim in any community/public pool which allows diaper aged children. The CDC will not come out and directly recommend this, but they do hint it isn't wise.

Salt water is different, but showering off is important there also. I don't swim near piers, swallow stagnant pools, inlets or anywhere there is not good wave action.

Just a hint.

The County is a governmental agency so the onus to comply with state regs is the key here.

If you want to debate about water borne pathogens and diseases, let me know. They are under reported.

Hey, Cliff Clavin (oops, I meant Vole), you posted over and over on the original story, so don't minimize what you said or how far-reaching it may have been. As far as I am concerned, because of you and others the whole idea was sexcrementped.

Now, some may consider you their hero for that. However, I think that you're a just a bureaucrat.

Anyway, nice going. And by the way, how did you know that someone sent the Health Dept. the article, unless it was you?

I enjoy the interaction on a beach, lake and stream with my dog. However, there is a concern about other dogs that may have worms, or any other problem that may be given to my dog! I would not have participated in this event.

ColinF, ROTFLMAO.

Nope: my role, biologist/researcher aka scientist...and you have no idea of who I am.

FYI, the records of ANY governmental agency under the rules of this state are in the sunshine unless they are medical records. Once a researcher, always a researcher. Florida actually has some of the best and strongest laws governing public health. Minnesota is a good state as well. Some other states have weak systems.

If you want the rules changed...(well I would repeat myself, Colin) LOL. Please know they ARE based on science and are not arbitrary. Anyone out there who took a graduate level microbiology class?

I am happy you think I am so powerful as to made a difference. I will take that as a huge compliment. If only I were so influential! LOL.

Thanks for your answer NaplesCracker.

I do understand where you are coming from and not arguing back. Times have changed. We have more risk than when you were little for any number of reasons. As I said, when I was first based in this state, I would not have had a problem swimming in some of the fresh water bodies. Springs are still pretty safe even though they can be cool.
If you read the rule I referenced, you will note that samples are taken. I didn't request the reports, but you can. The samples taken do not look for oocysts or ameba but only indicator species, however. Just take care about immersing your head in water. I would recommend wearing goggles and a nose clip. If you have family prone to ear infections I would avoid swimming in fresh water in this part of Florida. Do not swallow the water or rub your eyes with your hands after swimming there. Pretty much what is recommended for all swimmers who swim in public areas.

Take care and swim safe, NaplesCracker. I know you have common sense and I also know you have seen the enormous changes this area has gone through. My first base in this state was on the "other coast". Very built up...I am glad I didn't have to stay there long.

Growing up in Minnesota with it's numerous lakes and parks I can not think of one that did not allow dogs.

A few bad apples ruin it for us responsible dog owners.....sad....

Good link with lots of excellent information about recreational water illnesses: http://www.cdc.gov/healthyswimming/wh...

Follow the links on this page and be informed.

BTV: we get it. No dogs in lakes.

This is a great blog.....for me to POOP ON!

Wow, these blogs are hysterical. I own a dog that loves to swim - at home in our pool, and out on Keywadin. I wouldn't want to take him to a lake or pond because of the gators. But it would be really nice if Collier had a small designated area at the beach. Maybe a trial period to see if the dog owners are responsible enough to clean up after their pets.

Re: # 38 anon, I remember when one could drink the water directly out of the deep lakes in Minnesota, I did it as a kid. I used to hand over the side of my uncle's fishing boat and drink the sparkling uncontaminated delicious cold water directly from the lake. The rocky bottomed and deep spring fed lake was a wonderful place to enjoy. However even this kind of lake has been subjected to changes which would contraindicate this kind of activity now.

July 1st this year the Minnesota Department of Health issued this press release about the risks of swimming related to disease. You might find it interesting:

http://www.health.state.mn.us/news/pr...

Got Pepto-Bismol?

msboo96...the county needs to designate a salt water beach that allows owners and dogs to enjoy the water together! All who agree...call your Commissioner and tell them you want this.
There are no regulations by FDOH or FDEP which would prevent this kind of designation.

Take care everyone. Stay healthy.

You have to have your dog on a leash at Keywaydin otherwise you are violating the law. And, the person has to be holding the leash.

This is a very sad day for Collier County. I am sure when the Sugden's made their generous donation of this park - this is not what they had in mind. I bet if they were still alive they would love seeing dog lovers enjoying the park with their beloved pets.

I am a major animal lover. I have 2 dogs and 2 cats. I would LOVE for my doggies to play with other dogs and go swimming, but in a public body of water that is contained (no flow) I think it's pretty gross. Eliminate all the poop and peep and it's still pretty gross. I would like to see a section of the beach fenced off and it be a doggy park (like they do up north in our Great Lakes). I doubt we will see that, but one can dream. I wonder why so many people in Naples and Marco dislike animals so much? I never found it to be pet friendly here.

FreshFace..thats exactly how I feel. I'd love for a place like that here, but not a small lake. I wouldn't swim in it, and I wouldn't let my dogs swim in it. Pooh or not. Also, what about the people who bring dogs that aren't up to date on their vaccinations?

WHO CARES!

They don't want dogs swimming in the lake because of possible contamination of the water from urine and feces, but it's okay for people to do it? Doesn't make sense.

Dolphins, whales, manatees, porpoises,beavers,otters,seals,rats,walruses, polar bears,people, all are mammals, all swim and poop in water.
Like a few dogs are going to make a big difference.

Humans are the biggest waste producers EVERYWHERE,
and the only ones supposedly smart enough to do something about it.
I have never seen any of the above stated mammals tossing cigarette butts, food wrappers, or beer cans out their windows.

well then lets remove any wildlife that may be in the vacinity as well since there is a sanitation issue. lets forget about the ecosystem that seems to work things out

The "THEY" who prohibit domestic animals at public swimming areas are the legislature. Not the County...not me, but the folks that make the laws for the state. Please be aware these legislators use recommendations by the scientists from institutions such as the CDC. If you don't like what "they" have done in making the laws...work to change the laws. Quit whinning and act.

If you have a degree in microbiology or are a biologist and still have a problem with the laws as they are, you will have a better chance of changing them because you may be able to make your case in a logical evidenced based fashion.

Freshwater beaches are regulated for a reason. Salt water beaches are not regulated. But before you stick your toe in the water, you may want to refresh your memory with the article about the Gulf which appeared just days ago: http://www.naplesnews.com/news/2008/j...

Again, instead of whining and complaining about "they" contact the "they" who voted for the laws and tell them you don't agree. Then go out and buy stock in the companies which make the most commonly prescribed anti-diarrheals, anti-paracsitics and the like. If you are young and smart, consider the field of infectious diseases.

PS, try clicking on some of the links I posted: you might learn something.

Good luck with your efforts to change the laws governing public health and safety. You will need it...but I say go for it! Why not?
Perhaps some of us who retired early might be called back to service to track down the outbreaks. Heaven only knows the FDA and CDC are in a real pickle right now with the salmonella outbreak.

Ever get salmonella? Self limiting diarrheal illness but easily spread by poor hygiene and cross contamination.

Anyone ever have a parasitic infection? Cryptosporidia? Cyclospora? Giardia? Look these parasites up. Open your mind a bit.

My last comment...to all you who think that the laws are wrong...I pray you do not work in health care or handle food for a living, although it would not surprise me.

BlueTongueVole:
Do you honestly think prohibiting a few dogs is going to make a major impact on our water's safety?
You might as well never leave your house, oh wait, you have running water, don't you?
Better start buying bottled IF it has been thoroughly checked out.

My point is, if you are afraid of everything, are you really living?
Open your life a bit.

indigo dog lover....it's obvious you enjoy swimming with floaters. You know what I'm talking about? Those lovely brown friends that dogs leave behind them.

So as you open your life a bit, dive in face first in floaters of dog beach, and come up with a mouthful of feces, some of it festering with worms. You indeed will be living......with some new living parasites within you, too. Great fun.

There's nowhere for the floaters to float off to at a freshwater lake. They would fester and filter into your next swimming or ski expierence there.

SICK stuff...at least at the dog beach, there is a high tide, which will take the turds-de-pooches away with it.

the gators are depressed...

hmm wonder who stops the gators,birds, fish, from pooping in the water.Helloooo, lakes are not swimming pools. Personally I wont swim in lakes, but if others want too I dont see the differance between gator poop and dog poop.

Firehawk - no I am not an idiot because I love Dogbeach (NOT A LAKE) and wish Collier County could spare a few feet of the GULF OF MEXICO...and no I am not a rich snob with a hired hand pooper scooper. Sheeesch!!! Go away Mr. Happy.

#64 indigodragonfly: Tell me do you think that the county should violate the laws of the State of Florida? Should they just say...OK, we don't agree with this law because we want people to feel good about us? We want to be nice and fuzzy and accommodating. But now YOU must abide by the County laws?

Ok, let's for the sake of argument say you do believe that we should be able to pick and chose what laws we decide WE want to follow. Nice world. Let's say, I don't want to pay for my food, so I just take it. Wait, you say...that is stealing.

We have live in a country founded on the rule of law.

All this is about really is that the County at first failed realize that what they had proposed was not legal. When they found out this wasn't legal they had a OBLIGATION to cancel the event.

NOTHING is stopping the county legally from finding a salt water beach to hold a similar event.

Please look at the FAC link I listed in post #29.

Sorry, guys, wrong on all responses to me.
First of all, I would never swim anywhere near a dog beach. I rarely go into the ocean as it is, or any type of lake for that matter.

Secondly, Blue, this is not an argument., it is me stating my opinion, and you stating yours.

As stated above, you better start eliminating all water mammals if you are going to get so bent out of shape about a few dogs.

You response to me already blows everything our of proportion and context.

Now all of the sudden you are talking about breaking all types of laws, etc., etc.

Just curious, since you seem to know so much about Florida statutes(and I am not being sarcastic) Why ISN't there a salt water dog beach in Collier? Why do people have to drive all the way to Bonita? and where would you suggest that such beach be opened in Collier?

It had nothing to do with my simple statement.

Take a chill pill. Have a happy fourth.

I am not bent out of shape about dogs or the ocean or microorganisms.
The argument is not about biology, but what is legal and not. There are, however, risks when one swims in any body of water. The illnesses which are called (for purposes of consumers) are called Recreational Water Illnesses aren't something I made up. I used to research and track down pathogens which made people ill. Not just these diseases, but others as well. The Centers for Disease Control and Prevention has a lot of excellent information about how to swim safely. A lot of this is common sense.
http://www.cdc.gov/healthyswimming/'

In case you don't want to navigate away from NDN or open a new window I copied the definition from the RWI page (link on the "Healthy Swimming" page and pasted it below:

********

"RWIs are illnesses that are spread by swallowing, breathing, or having contact with contaminated water from swimming pools, spas, lakes, rivers, or oceans. Recreational water illnesses can cause a wide variety of symptoms, including gastrointestinal, skin, ear, respiratory, eye, neurologic and wound infections. The most commonly reported RWI is diarrhea. Diarrheal illnesses can be caused by germs such as Crypto, short for Cryptosporidium, Giardia, Shigella, norovirus and E. coli O157:H7."

********

People do become ill, a lot more often than is reported. Most treat diarrhea at home.
When a number of people become ill, seek medical attention and this is reported to the health departments, investigations are conducted to see what happened, what caused (the organism) the outbreak and what can be done to stop the outbreak from spreading. If you have no underlying chronic disease which causes diarrhea and you have ever had this symptom...chances are you had a food or waterborne disease. No big deal right? Maybe, but consider some of the illnesses which have killed people and the response of the public when this happens. "Where are the authorities?" etc.

When people debate, they make "arguments" just as attorneys make such arguments in court. A word is not limited to one definition but used in context.

Pathogens are the kinds of organisms which can make people ill. Not every environment supports pathogens outside the human body. Some animals with similar make up and body temperatures can carry (asymptomatically) these pathogens.

Open bodies of water provide a "medium" of a sort. All types of microorganisms live in this soup. Most are harmless, but some can be deadly. Now concentrate the water and have no inflow, outflow,...and you have problems already. Often you will see even storm water detention ponds with "fountains"...that isn't a bacterial control but one to control algae. Swimming in that kind of soup isn't wise.

Where water can flow over rocks, or have a spring to feed it the risk can go down.

The Federal government along with the State governments are obligated to provide for the health, safety and welfare of the citizens. So they make rules and laws to do so. That is why I brought up the law. So many want say it is unfair, but the rules and laws can be changed by the processes we have in place.

FYI, I know of no outbreaks closely associated with water mammals.

If you read my earlier comments...I have advocated for a salt water beach for dog owners and their pets. There is no statute or rule to disallow this.
Since I seldom go to the beach in this county, I have no idea where a good beach should go.

I know statutes and administrative code because when I wonder about a law, I look it up. I also had to know a lot of it because I was based in Florida a long time. I had to collaborate with state, county and municipal agencies in my role. I also made any number of presentations about disease and disease prevention. I am a patient person knowing that fewer and fewer individuals understand the core basics of science.

Now, on to the barbeque.

Swim safe.

Good ifo, Blue.
All good points.

Enjoy the holiday

Hey Vole, were you curious enough about this subject to count the number of references to "dog" or "canine" in that CDC link you keep posting? If you came up with zero, you counted correctly. Seems like human are the much bigger threat to our well being (as usual).

As for the poster who keeps referring to "floaters," dude... disgusting. I don't know a great deal about dogs, but I've seen them around and I have never seen one actually relieve itself, urinally or fecally, while IN the water. Does that ever happen? Can a dog actually take a dump while swimming. For the record I have seen human children do this, but I just can't picture a dog pooping or peeing while partially submerged.

naplescribe, good point, glad you visited the website. It is gratifying that someone is curious enough to learn more and think about the implications.

Yes, humans do spread diseases back and forth to one another pretty readily. The Florida law prohibits "domestic animals" and is also not specific to dogs. So no cats can bathe with their owners as well.
Diseases we acquire from animals are called zooenosis.

Interesting fact. The egg state of some parasites such as giardia and cryptosporidium is resistant to even hyperchlorination (see the link at the bottom of this post). Once ingested the oocyte (egg) hatches and grows in the intestine. Sometimes this causes significant illness sometimes the condition is asymptomatic or becomes chronic and invites other problems. The asymptomatic individual can serve as a reservoir for the parasite. Dogs and raccoons frequently harbor giardia. I remember being able to drink from free flowing spring feed streams in Montana without risk of giardiasis. But this is no longer the case...the parasite is pretty much in all parts of the country.

This is why, I personally do not swim in Florida's fresh water "lakes" or community of public pools which allow diaper aged children. Just my choice (and that of my family)...not illegal for diaper aged children or incontinent adults to swim in such places. Our personal pool is sparkling and carefully monitored.

Two more links to visit, first the search on the CDC site for giardia:

http://www.cdc.gov/search.do?queryTex...

Second is the link to an article in the June 2008 dispatch of the EID (Emerging Infectious Diseases Journal) about an outbreak of illnesses in swimming pools in Georgia. Fresh water beaches in Florida and Swimming pools in Florida all are governed under rules to help prevent this, but it can still happen here too.

http://www.cdc.gov/eid/content/14/6/9...

Thanks again naplesscribe and you too indigodragonfly. I really just give a darn. Prevention is so much better than being sick. People who are not incapacitated by diseases are a lot happier, productive and they don't spend so much money on medicine or doctor's visits. Common sense and reasonable hygiene will keep you in pretty good shape as far as preventing many of these types of infections.

Take care.

But it's okay to swim in other people's urine & feces...mmmm....